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Page by Page Response
For ease of use, we formatted our response in a page by page
format. This section responds to the Watchtower
publications Reasoning From the Scriptures (RFTS) pages
405 to 426 and the brochure Should you Believe in the
Trinity?
Contents: Responses to
Reasoning from the Scriptures
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 405-406a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 406b-407a and pp. 380b-381a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 407b-408a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 408b-409a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 409b-411a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 411b-412a
-
Reasoning from the Scriptures,
p. 412b
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 412c-413a
-
Reasoning from the Scriptures,
p. 413b
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 413c-414a
-
Reasoning from the Scriptures,
p. 414b
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 414c-415a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 415b-416a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 416b-417a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 417b-418a
-
Reasoning from the Scriptures,
p. 418b
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 418c-419a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 419b-420a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 420b-421a
-
Reasoning from the Scriptures,
p. 421b
-
Reasoning from the Scriptures,
p. 422a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 422b-423a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 423b-424a
-
Reasoning from the Scriptures,
p. 424b
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 424c-425a
-
Reasoning
from the Scriptures,
p. 425b-426
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 405-406a |
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“Neither
the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the
New Testament”
“Among
the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely
approaching such a mentality or perspective.” |
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What is the origin of the
Trinity doctrine?
The New Encyclopedia Britannica says: "Neither the
word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the
New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to
contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The
Lord our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4)....The doctrine developed
gradually over several centuries and through many
controversies....By the end of the 4th century...the doctrine of
the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever
since."—(1976),
Micropaedia, Vol. X, p. 126
The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: "The formulation
'one God in three Persons' was not solidly established,
certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its
profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.
But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the
title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic
Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a
mentality or perspective."—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: "Christianity
derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian
[believing that God is one person]. The road which lead
from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one.
Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early
Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the
contrary, a deviation from this teaching."—(1956), Vol. XXVII,
p. 294L.
According to the Nouveau Dictionanaire Universel, "The
Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older
trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the
rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to
the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian
Churches....This Greek philosopher's [Plato, fourth century
B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity...can be found in all
the ancient [pagan] religions."—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M.
Lachatre, Vol. 2, p. 1467
John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible,
says: "The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is
defined in terms of 'persons' and 'nature' which are G[ree]k
philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the
Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of
long controversies in which these terms and other such as
'essence' and 'substance' were erroneously applied to God by
some theologians."—(New York, 1965), p. 899.
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
“Watchtower
offers no meaningful rebuttal of any serious works on the topic nor
does it quote any of these sources.”
“A
doctrine is a teaching that explains the Bible. Often times, the
exact wording of a doctrine is not found in the Bible.”
“...there
is sufficient plurality within God's own speech in Genesis, the Old
Testament and the Shema to allow for accepting the plurality of
persons found in Trinitarian doctrine.”
“The
Nicene Creed is rarely [if] ever quoted by Watchtower in all the
literature that purports to refute it.”
“The
assertion by Watchtower that Nicene teachings are not to be found
prior to the fourth century is completely false.” |
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In all of official
recent Watchtower literature, the amount of material regularly used
and devoted to debating Trinitarian doctrine would constitute
probably around 50 pages in total. By contrast, the Christian
literature devotes hundreds of books on this one topic alone.
Peter Toon, in his book
Our Triune God, devotes more that 230 pages to extensive
discussion on the topic. James White devotes more than 220
pages in his book
The Forgotten Trinity. These books are easily a fraction of
the sum total of material to be browsed. Christian scholars
are renown for in-depth study of even the shortest passages.
In John Piper's The Justification of God, 220 pages are
devoted to the exposition of Romans 9:1-23 alone! For this
project, more than 125 Ante-Nicene Church books (pre-fourth century)
were read and quoted with links and references to the full work
provided within this site (see EARLY CHURCH EVIDENCE FOR THE TRINITY).
The reader is encouraged to read the above books for a more
historically and exegetically sound study of the Trinity.
It is also important to note the sources
used by Watchtower in their defense quoted above. Research
into the matter should span beyond encyclopedic excerpts especially
when one considers how "rationalized" such publications are in
evaluating the miraculous claims of the Bible and how many hundreds
of books are available on the topic (specifically written to address
the topic!). Watchtower offers no meaningful rebuttal of any
serious works on the topic nor does it quote any of these sources.
As we will quickly see, the above quotes by Watchtower are not only
insufficient to mount a defense of Watchtower doctrine, they are
often completely inaccurate.
I am sometimes asked by a Jehovah's
Witness if I'm impressed by the amount of work done by Watchtower on
the topic of the Trinity. To the surprise of some, my response
is always no. Those who are impressed seem to come from
backgrounds where they hadn't learn about the topic before.
The reason I have not been impressed by Watchtower's work on the
subject has less to do with quantity but more with quality.
More often than not, I find the claims made by Watchtower to be
completely erroneous or misleading. The following statement is
an excellent example of what I mean by the latter
"Neither
the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in
the New Testament"
There are many doctrines not in the
Bible. A doctrine is a teaching that explains the Bible.
Often times, the exact wording of a doctrine is not found in the
Bible. For example, Jehovah Witnesses have a doctrine that
states that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. This is a doctrine, not
an explicit biblical teaching. Nowhere can you find the Bible
saying, "Jesus is Michael the Archangel." We could (and will) say
that neither these words, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears
in the New Testament. Would this alone be a valid argument?
Of course not. Doctrines are teachings bringing light to
biblical matters explaining what we can understand from Scripture
even if Scripture does not explicitly teach such things. As
the Watchtower doctrine of Jesus being Michael the Archangel
demonstrates, exact words of a doctrine do not have to appear in the
Bible for it to be true.
We should add to our use of the
Archangel example that Jesus is not an angel, as even the NWT
translation demonstrates. "For it is not to angels that he
[God] has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are
speaking," (Heb. 2:5) but to Christ. "For in that he subjects
all things to him [Christ] [God] left nothing that is not subject to
him..." (Heb. 2:8; cf. 2:5-9; 1:5, 7, 13)
Following closely after our first
Watchtower quote, we read the following
...nor
did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in
the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one
Lord' (Deut. 6:4)
The Jewish monotheistic confession is
called the Shema. A point of interest about this confession is
that the original word for "God" is Elohim which is plural and
literally means "mighty ones." The verse literally means, "The
Lord our Mighty Ones is one Lord." Plural expressions used by God
are quite common. In Genesis 1:26 God says, "Let us
make man in our image, in our likeness..." That
"us" and "our" refers to God and not God "plus other creatures" is
made evident by the fact that verse 27 says "So God created
man in his own image, in the image of God he
created him..." I have not found any formally published
Watchtower material specifically addressing Genesis 1:26-27, though
a common response I hear is that the "us" and "our" God is talking
to is the preincarnate Jesus or the angels. However, it should
be of interest to any Jehovah Witness that God tells those described
as "us" to "make man." If we accept that the "us"
includes Jesus or the angels then we must also say that Jesus and
the angels have powers like God to create (something Witnesses do
not believe). Another problem the Witness must face is the
fact that the Bible clearly says that God was alone when he created
the heavens and the earth. Isaiah 44:24 reads, "I am the Lord,
who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens,
who spread out the earth by myself." (emphasis mine) The "us"
and "our" doing the creating in Genesis 1:26 must alone refer to
God. The early church had this same understanding of Genesis
1:26. Before 230 A.D., Tertullian wrote (Against Praxeas)
SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
I ask you how it is possible for a Being who is merely and
absolutely One and Singular, to speak in plural phrase, saying, "Let us make man
in our own image, and after our own likeness;" whereas He ought to have said,
"Let me make man in my own image, and after my own likeness," as being a unique
and singular Being? In the following passage, however, "Behold the man is become
as one of us," He is either deceiving or amusing us in speaking plurally, if He
is One only and singular. Or was it to the angels that He spoke, as the Jews
interpret the passage, because these also acknowledge not the Son? Or was it
because He was at once the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, that He spoke to
Himself in plural terms, making Himself plural on that very account? Nay, it was
because He had already His Son close at His side, as a second Person, His own
Word, and a third Person also, the Spirit in the Word, that He purposely adopted
the plural phrase, "Let us make;" and, "in our image;" and, "become as one of
us." [emphasis added]
What makes Tertullian's remark so
significant at this point is that he is one of the early church
fathers quoted by Watchtower as supporting their view (See
Should you Believe in the Trinity? p. 7 and our response in
EARLY CHURCH EVIDENCE FOR THE TRINITY).
It is, in fact, Tertullian who supports the Trinity and, as we'll
see shortly, Tertullian who demonstrates that Trinitarian doctrine
was not a new belief in the fourth century. In his letter
Against Praxeas, Tertullian defends the Trinity (SEE
ENTIRE LETTER).
Tertullian disagrees with the Watchtower teaching that the Spirit is
merely the "power" or "force" of God, referring to Him as "a third
Person."
What Watchtower would like to have you
believe is that there is somehow a contradiction between Trinitarian
doctrine and the Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4. On the contrary,
there is sufficient plurality within God's own speech in Genesis,
the Old Testament and the Shema to allow for accepting the plurality
of persons found in Trinitarian doctrine. In fact, every time
"God" is found in the Old Testament, it is usually the plural word
Elohim. This means that the plural Elohim for "God" is found
over 2,500 times in the Old Testament.
What about Watchtower's next claim?
The formulation 'one God in three Persons' was
not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into
Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of
the 4th century. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been
nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or
perspective.
What exactly is this fourth century
"formulation" Watchtower keeps talking about. It's popular
name is the Nicene creed. The more technically correct name
for the final orthodox statement is known as the
Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed because it is the result of the
Council of Nicea (325) and the Council of Constantinople (381).
Despite its being known as the official orthodox position on the
nature of God, its teachings were nothing new to the church of its
time. "All one has to do is read second- and third-century
church fathers such as Athenagorus, Tertullian, Origen or Cyprian to
see immediately that Christians believed in the Trinity long before
Constantine called all the Christian bishops to the first ecumenical
council at Nicea in 325."[1] The Nicene Creed
is rarely [if] ever quoted by Watchtower in all the literature that
purports to refute it. If it is to be the subject of heavy debate,
we feel it would be helpful for the reader to at least see what it
teaches. The Nicene Creed
I
believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and
earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God,
begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of
Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one
substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and
was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was
made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He
suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again,
according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits
on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with
glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have
no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who
proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and
the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the
prophets.
And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I
acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look
for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to
come. Amen.
It is exactly this fourth-century
teaching of which Watchtower claims, "history makes clear that the
Trinity was unknown throughout Biblical times and for several
centuries thereafter."[2] On page 7 of the
1989 brochure
Should you Believe in the Trinity?, Watchtower makes the
most amazing claim by citing five ante-Nicene Fathers to make its
case: Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Hippolytus
and Origen. Discussed in greater detail in our EARLY CHURCH EVIDENCE FOR THE TRINITY,
we are primarily concerned here to demonstrate that aspects of the
Nicene Creed were taught well prior to the fourth century. One
may even so bold as to say that entire books were devoted to the
defense of the Deity of Christ and explanation of the Trinity (the
reader is referred to the following contained in this Web site in
full length: 2nd century, Justin Martyr,
Dialogue with Trypho
and early 3rd century, Tertullian,
Against Praxeas).
Let us review at least three teachings of the Nicene Creed and
quote exactly when and where these teaching precede the creed.
TEACHING
1
Jesus Christ is God of
God, Light of Light, very God of very God.
Justin Martyr writes in the second
century
"...the Father of the universe has a Son; who also, being the
first-begotten Word of God, is even God."
Justin Martyr, First Apology
...SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
"Therefore these words
testify explicitly that He is witnessed to by Him who
established these things, as deserving to be worshipped, as God
and as Christ."
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho
...SEE
THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
"Now I have proved at length
that Christ is called God."
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho
...SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
Irenaeus, late second century writes
"He was the beginning;
'and the Word was God,' of course, for that which is
begotten of God is God."
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book I
...SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
"For the Spirit designates both [of them] by the
name, of God-both Him who is anointed as Son, and Him who does anoint, that is,
the Father."
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book I
...SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
Clement of Alexandria, early third
century
"This Word, then, the Christ, the cause of
both our being at first (for He was in God) and of our well-being, this very
Word has now appeared as man, He alone being both, both God and man."
Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation
to the Heathen ...SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
Tertullian, early third century has
amazingly close language to formal Trinitarian doctrine
"Thus Christ is Spirit of Spirit, and God of God, as light
of light is kindled."
Tertullian, The Apology ...SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
TEACHING
2
Jesus Christ is
begotten, not made
Irenaeus, late second century
"But the Son, eternally co-existing with the Father,
from of old, yea, from the beginning..."
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book II
...SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
"For thou, O man, art not an uncreated being, nor didst thou always co-exist with
God, as did His own Word..."
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book II
...SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
Clement of Alexandria, early third
century
For when he says, "That which was from the beginning," he touches
upon the generation without beginning of the Son, who is co-existent with the
Father. There was; then, a Word importing an unbeginning eternity; as also the
Word itself, that is, the Son of God, who being, by equality of substance, one
with the Father, is eternal and uncreated.
Clement of Alexandria, Fragments
...SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
TEACHING
3
Jesus Christ is of one
substance with the Father
Tertullian, early third century, has by
far the most similar language to that of the Nicene Creed and
Trinitarian doctrine. (The reader is directed to read
Tertullian's entire letter
Against Praxeas
contained in this Web site, in which Tertullian defends full
Trinitarian doctrine.)
"...Unity into a Trinity, placing in their order the three Persons
-- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: three, however, not in condition,
but in degree; not in substance, but in form; not in power, but in aspect; yet
of one substance, and of one condition, and of one power, inasmuch as He is one
God, from whom these degrees and forms and aspects are reckoned, under the name
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
Tertullian, Against Praxeas ...SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
Although Tertullian is by far the
clearest expositor on Trinitarian theology, aspects of Nicene
doctrine are found clearly in the second century through the letters
of Justin Martyr. Justin Martyr describes Christ as both God while
at the same time distinct from the Father
"I shall endeavour
to persuade you, that He who is said to have appeared to
Abraham, and to Jacob, and to Moses, and who is called God, is
distinct from Him who made all things,--numerically, I mean, not
[distinct] in will."
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho
...SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
Conclusion
The assertion by Watchtower that Nicene teachings are not to be
found prior to the fourth century is completely false. We have
demonstrated this by quoting the very same church fathers Watchtower
claims to use in their defense. In fact, if one were to review
the much larger response we give in EARLY CHURCH EVIDENCE FOR THE TRINITY,
the reader would have complete confidence that Trinitarian beliefs
predate the Nicene creed by hundreds of years. We can with
certainty predate these teachings to as soon as the early second
century.
................................................................................................................................
NOTES
1. Roger
E. Olson, The Mosaic of Christian Belief (Illinois: IVP,
2002), p. 135
2. Should you Believe in the Trinity?
(Watchtower, 1989), p. 7 |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, pp. 406b-407a and pp. 380b-381a |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, pp. 406b-407a
Even though, as Trinitarians acknowledge, neither the word "Trinity"
nor a statement of the Trinitarian dogma is found in the Bible, are
the concepts that are embodied in that dogma found there?
Does the Bible teach
that the "Holy Spirit" is a person?
Some individual text that refer to the holy spirit ("Holy
Ghost," KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For
example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek,
pa·ra'kle·tos; "Comforter," KJ; "Advocate," JB, NE) that
'teaches,' 'bears witness,' speaks' and 'hears.' (John
14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people
were "filled" with holy spirit, that some were 'baptized' with
it or "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38)
These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a
person. To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches,
all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable
conclusion? That the first texts cited here employ a
figure of speech personifying God's holy spirit, his active
force, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water,
and blood. (See also pages 380, 381, under the heading
"Spirit.")
The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father—Jehovah.
They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere
in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy
spirit.
Acts 7:55, 56 reports that Stephan was given a vision of
heaven in which he saw "Jesus standing at God's right hand."
But he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit. (See also
Revelation 7:10; 22:1, 3.)
The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The majority of
N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God's spirit as something, not
someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the
spirit and the power of God." (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It
also reports: "The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the
second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a
measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally."—Vol.
XIV, p. 296
Reasoning from
the Scriptures, pp. 380-381
Definition [of
spirit]: The Hebrew word ru'ach and the Greek pneu'ma which are
often translated "spirit," have a number of meanings. All
of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and
which gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and
Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active
life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that
issues from a person's figurative heart and that causes him to
say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired utterances
originating with an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and
(6) God's active force, or holy spirit. Several of these
usages are here discussed in relation to topics that may arise
in the field ministry.
What is the holy
spirit?
A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit
shows that it is spoken of as 'filling' people; they can be
'baptized' with it; and they can be "anointed" with it. (Luke
1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) None of these expressions would be
appropriate if the holy spirit were a person.
Jesus also referred to the holy spirit as a "helper" (Greek,
pa·ra'kle·tos), and he said that this helper would "teach,"
"bear witness," "speak," and 'hear.' )John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26;
16:13) It is not unusual in the Scriptures for something to be
personified. For example, wisdom is said to have
"children." (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are spoken of as being
kings. (Rom. 5:14, 21) While some texts say that the
spirit "spoke," other passages make clear that this was done
through angels or humans. (Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matt.
10:19, 20; compare Acts 20:23 with 21:10, 11.) At 1 John
5:6-8, not only the spirit but also "the water and the blood"
are said to 'bear witness." So, none of the
expressions found in these texts in themselves prove that the
holy spirit is a person.
The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all
the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this
viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the
active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful
force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his
holy will.—Ps.
104.30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts 4:31.
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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It is very true that certain words can
have different meanings within certain contexts. This is known
as a semantic scope of meaning. In our discussion we will look at
all factors that come to bear on the word pneuma (pronounced
"Peh-noo-mah") including what the early church fathers understood.
We will especially consider the opinions of Irenaeus, Clement of
Alexandria, Tertullian, Hippolytus and Origen because they a
mentioned in the Watchtower brochure
Should you Believe in the Trinity? on page 7.
Does the manner in which the Holy Spirit
is used affect whether the Spirit should be seen as a person or a
"force." |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 407b-408a |
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 408b-409a |
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 409b-411a |
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 411b-412a |
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from the
Scriptures, p. 412b |
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 412c-413a |
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from the
Scriptures, p. 413b |
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 413c-414a |
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from the
Scriptures, p. 414b |
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 414c-415a |
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 415b-416a |
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Christian
Response |
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 416b-417a |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 417b-418a |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from the
Scriptures, p. 418b |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 418c-419a |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 419b-420a |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 420b-421a |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from the
Scriptures, p. 421b |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from the
Scriptures, p. 422a |
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Argument:
...on the whole it seems best to
adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne
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RS reads: "Of the Son
he says, 'Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.'" (KJ, NE,
TEV, Dy, JB, NAB have similar renderings.) However, NW
reads: "But with reference to the Son: 'God is your throne
forever and ever.'" (AT, Mo, TC, By convey the same
idea.)
Which rendering is
harmonious with the context? The preceding verses say
God is speaking, not that he is being address; and the
following verse uses the expression "God, thy God," showing that
the one addressed is not the Most High Bod but is a worshiper of
that God. Hebrews 1:18 quotes from Psalms 45:6, which
originally was addressed to a human king. Obviously, the
Bible writer of this psalm did not think that this human king
was Almighty God. Rather, Psalm 45:5, in RS, reads,
"Your divine throne." (NE says, "Your throne is like
God's throne." JP [verse 7]: "Thy throne given of God.")
Solomon, who was possibly the king originally addressed in
Psalm 45, was said to sit "upon Jehovah's throne." (1 Chron.
29:23, NW) In harmony with the fact that God is the
"throne," or Source and Upholder of Christ's kingship, Daniel
7:13, 14 and Luke 1:32 show that God confers such authority on
him.
Hebrews 1:8, 9
quotes from Psalms 45:6, 7, concerning which the Bible scholar
B. F. Wescott states: "The LXX [Septuagint] admits of two
renderings: [ho theos] can be taken as a vocative in both
cases (Thy throne, O God,...therefore, O God, Thy God...)
or it can be taken as the subject (or the predicate) in the
first case (God is Thy throne, or Thy throne is God...),
and in apposition to [ho theos sou] in the second case (Therefore
God, even Thy God...)....It is scarcely possible that [Elohim]
in the original can be addressed to the king. The
presumption therefore is against the belief that [ho theos]
is a vocative in the LXX. Thus on the whole it seems best
to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne
(or, Thy throne is God), that is 'Thy kingdom is founded upon
God, the immovable Rock.'"—The
Epistle to the Hebrews (London, 1889), pp. 25, 26.
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Christian
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Although the Bible |
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By far the most common translation for
Hebrews 1:8 is "Your throne, O God..." Tertullian understood
Hebrews in this light
SEE THIS IN ITS CONTEXT
If you are so venturesome and harsh, reflect a while; and that
you may think the better and more deliberately, listen to the psalm in which Two are
described as God: "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever; the sceptre of Your
kingdom is a sceptre of righteousness. You have loved righteousness, and hated
iniquity: therefore God, even Your God, has anointed You or made You His
Christ."
Notice that the translation of
Hebrews 1:8 by Tertullian is different from the NWT's "God is your throne forever..."
The Greek literally reads, "the throne of
you (O QronoV sou), God (o QeoV), is in the ages of ages (eiV ton
aiwna tou aiwnoV)." (O QronoV sou, o QeoV, eiV ton aiwna tou aiwnoV).
Greek Scholars agree is that o
QeoV is in the vocative case.
In Greek there are 5 cases (roles) for a noun: nominative, genitive,
dative, accusative and vocative.* Vocative is used when a noun
is used as part of a personal reference. It expands on who is
being address. A few English counterparts would be
"May you, O King, live
forever..."
"You, Mr. President, will I obey..."
In each sentence the pronoun "you" is not specific and the listener
(or reader) may not understand the role of the person spoken to. A
direct address recognizing the role of the subject is used in each
of these sentences. In the first sentence, the speaker is
acknowledging that the "you" to whom he is referring is the King and
in the second it's the President being addressed. The vocative
case in Greek is used often to emphasize the respect a speaker has
for the one he's speaking to. In the case of Hebrews, "you"
(Greek sou)
is God, so the speaker acknowledges who he is by adding "O God"
(Greek o QeoV).
*I'm aware that not all scholars
comply with the five case system and hold to a four case one since
the vocative is the same "form" as the nominative. Others
adhere to an eight case system defining case by use of a noun in a
sentence rather than by form. The concept of a vocative/direct
address use of o QeoV
in Hebrews 1:8 is still not debated regardless of the varying camps
in the academic community and I have doubts as to whether of not
it's even important to have this note. |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 422b-423a |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 423b-424a |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from the
Scriptures, p. 424b |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 424c-425a |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Reasoning from
the Scriptures, p. 425b-426 |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Should you
Believe in the Trinity?, pp. |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Should you
Believe in the Trinity?, pp. |
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Christian
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Response:
Although the Bible |
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Should you
Believe in the Trinity?, pp. |
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Christian
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